Title: WBM - Logical thoughts and questions from a non technical person.

madeleinemccanncontroversy > WAYBACK MACHINE > Waybback Threads

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Rank：Diamond Member Score：2851 Posts：2851 From：USA Register：26/01/2013 4:34 PM

Date Posted：01/07/2015 7:49 PMCopy HTML The ONE big question as I understand it is ...(from a non techie perspective) How is it possible for a CEOP McCann page to be 'available' on April 30th for content from another date to have 'found it'.  Chris said that he doesn't believe anything did 'find' it.  It was assigned an incorrect timestamp in their search interface and should have been assigned to October (for the Home Page) According to Chris, had someone searched for the page in (eg) June, the page would not have existed. All the technical stuff is above me so this is how I see the situation in my understanding... The page content of April 30th were very obviously incorrect for that date as they referred to a time in the future  * CEOP Maddie page referred to a link to a downloadable poster which originated from the McCann's FindMadeleine site * CEOP Home page linked to the Maddie Page referred to 'Latest News' in October When this first was discovered, my 'logic' told me that the pages were a mistake and that it was a WBM mistake. Chris confirmed this once he saw the Home Page referring to October. The issue as it stands now (as I believe it) is WHY was there an April 30th mccann *space for a page* existing so that a future page (July?)  found its way onto that 'space' and also a *space for a page* available for the October home page to have found its way to that 'space'? QUESTIONS FROM A NON TECHNICAL PERSON.... 1)Was there a *space for a page* with the CEOP McCann name available on April 30th? 2) Was there a *space for a page* with the CEOP McCann name VIEWABLE on April 30th? (ie what content would have been on that page before the downloadable poster was available from McCanns website was able to be linked)? 3)Was there a *space for a page*  for a future CEOP Home Page AVAILABLE on April 30th? 4) Was there a *space for a page*  for a future CEOP Home Page  VIEWABLE on April 30th (ie what content would have been on that page until the October home page appeared) ------------------------------------ a) Have WBM resolved the issue and identify the reason why the above happened and can all of the above  be explained technically by WBM? b) Have WBM recognised there was a mistake but have not (yet?)  been able to identify. c) Is there NO technical explanation possible for the *space for a McCann page* to have existed on April 30th and therefore CEOP are in question? d) Did WBM recognise the mistake but are unable explain why the *space for a page* was available for a future McCann page to have landed on it. (Non Complicit) e) Did WBM recognise the mistake and ultimately identify that the CEOP McCann *space for a page* could only be explained if it did in fact exist but have  failed to acknowledge or  report to the appropriate authorites for reasons known only to themselves? (Complicit) My current personal thoughts on this are basically what we know... The pages and their content were a mistake to have been on April 30th as they linked to further dates in the future... WBM have acknowledged it is a mistake and attempts were made to explain it to me, so I have chosen to believe the facts as I see them... HOWEVER, I am not technically minded to understand the issue about the April 30th mccann *space for a page* existing three days before Madeleine disappeared after being assured by so many people that this could not have technically happened.  For that reason I recognise why many believe its possible that CEOP had 'reserved a page' on April 30th and this would mean there may be a major cover up. It is all down to a technical issue and until it can be explained that it is impossible for that *space for a McCann page* to have been available ONLY if CEOP had prior knowledge to the disappearance, I choose to stay with the known facts, that the page contents for April 30th (McCann and Home page) were linked to the future (July and October) and was therefore a mistake. The BIG question and one that I cannot personally make any judgements on, hence my reservations until I hear officially.. . IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A *SPACE FOR A McCANN PAGE* TO HAVE TECHNICALLY EXISTED THREE DAYS BEFORE MADELEINE'S DISAPPEARANCE? Just to get the perspective here, as far as I recall, I did not call WBM and ask them to correct it  "I'll get in touch with them and have them correct it." as claimed. The purpose of my call was to alert them. During UK sleeping hours (and Canadian) I spent many hours checking as much as I could and what I found (as a non technical person) was the April 30th mccann page had a link to a downloadable poster that was 'supposedly' only available days after Madeleine's disappearance. My logic told me that this poster originated from the McCanns website and if in place on April 30th on the CEOP Mccann page then the McCann's website would also have to have been in place more than three days before Madeleine's disappearance. Upon checking the CEOP HOME PAGE for April 30th I saw that 'Latest News' was for October. It became apparent for me at this point that there was an error of some sort. It is my responsibility as admin of HDH to ensure that we stick to facts, and was therefore important for me to follow up with a phone call to WBM at the first opportunity. I pointed out the issue and asked some questions (inspired by comments from others ) ---------------------------------------------------- Lizzy Hideho Taylor NOTE: I have spoken to the legal representative of Internet Archive and he will be emailing me with a message regarding their Wayback Machine and then will be passing the info to his team to check all the technical details. I asked *Why there was a page existing for Madeleine on April 30th *Why there was a link to download a poster from a website that did not exist until a few days later. *Why the homepage for April 30th showed 'Latest News' for October 2007 (six months later) when all the preceeding pages had correct data *Whether the source code/HTML could have been tampered with And more... June 17 at 1:40pm · ----------------------------------------------------------- Chris acknowledged he has spoken to Isabelle and sent her an email , but realised, when I pointed him to the HOME PAGE error that there had been some kind of a mistake and he would have his team look into it. He contacted Isabelle to correct the email he had sent originally in good faith. I asked for him to give an interim comment so I could give others some details.  He recognised the mistake and I posted accordingly. The knowledge at that time was a page was in place about Madeleine, at a date prior to her disappearance and linked to information not available until a later date. As far as the page content was concerned it could not have been in place on that date and as far as I was concerned, it was a proven mistake. I posted accordingly and advised that I was hesitant to continue with further 'speculation' on this. At this point it WAS speculation as far as any non techie members were concerned. The mistake was acknowledged and proven to be a mistake.  The page content on that date could not have existed on April 30th.  (Unless the McCanns website had been in place before Madeleine's disappearance with the downloadable poster available) At this point the technical issue took over and as I see it, the issue about that specific page being on April 30th was a mistake, but the 'fact' that an April 30th Date page with the McCann name being in place before Madeleine's disappearance became the issue. How could a page be in place for McCann 3 days before Madeleine disappeared. Lengthy threads by people that understand the technical side discussed whether there is any way this page could exist or not. Chris had sent an email admitting to the mistake but while awaiting his team to investigate, had given no answer as to how this could have happened, but the discussions continued. I called a few days later but he gave me no indication that they had resolved the reason it happened, so at this point the big question is how there could have been a mccann page available on that date. (we know the content was a mistake). I saw two basic options, either CEOP had a page in place BEFORE Madeleine went missing OR Wayback Machine had made an error in 'creating' the page for the later dated content to be placed. I had waited patiently for Chris to respond with an email containing the teams findings, and having not received one chose to call once again to ask if/when we would be receiving the findings.  He attempted to tell me the unique process involved and answered some of my further questions in a 25 min (approx) conversation. I posted accordingly a very concise summary of our conversation.... ........................................... Lizzy Hideho Taylor June 29 at 1:12pm · Edited I just spoke to Chris about the WBM issues to ask if there could be a further email about the reason the CEOP page appeared on April 30th. His response was that the email he sent to me initially was an acknowledgement of their error in the Timestamp (something to do with a 'subset') and that there really isn't anything else they can reply to. He has become aware of the 'speculation' but basically cannot respond any further and suggested that if anyone has any queries about anything regarding the error and if they feel that there may be major implications they should contact the police and he will furnish them with any information necessary. --------------------------------------- This seemed to open the floodgates on accusations about Chris, holding back information, fobbing us off by suggesting going to the police, etc etc and comments ultimately were suggesting he/they were complicit in a cover up. The perception of the conversation I had with Chris was based on a few of my comments and was taken out of context to what was really discussed. It may seem unbelievable to some but the knowledge about the Madeleine McCann case in N America is very little and my observation here in Canada is generally they think they may have heard of Madeleine's name or have no knowledge whatsoever. WBM is based in San Francisco and Chris admitted to having no knowledge of the case prior to this 'happening'.  He still does not know any details about the case, so for him this has only been about how WBM can deal with the admitted mistake. The ONE big question as I understand it is ... How is it possible for a CEOP McCann page to be 'available' on April 30th for content from another date to have 'found it'.  He said that he doesn't believe anything did 'find' it.  It was assigned an incorrect timestamp in their search interface and should have been assigned to October (for the Home Page) According to Chris, had someone searched for the page in (eg) July, the page would not have existed. All the technical stuff is above me so this is how I see the situation in my understanding... The page content of April 30th were very obviously incorrect for that date as they referred to a time in the future  * CEOP Maddie page referred to a link to a downloadable poster which originated from the McCanns FindMadleine site * CEOP Home page linked to the Maddie Page referred to 'Latest News' in October When this first was discovered, my 'logic' told me that the pages were a mistake and that it was a WMB mistake. Chris confirmed this once he saw the Home Page referring to October. The issue as it stands now (as I believe it) is WHY was there an April 30th mccann *space for a page* existing so that a future page (July?)  found its way onto that 'space' and also a *space for a page* available for the October home page to have found its way to that 'space'? QUESTIONS FROM A NON TECHNICAL PERSON.... 1)Was there a *space for a page* with the CEOP McCann name available on April 30th? 2) Was there a *space for a page* with the CEOP McCann name VIEWABLE on April 30th? (ie what content would have been on that page before the downloadable poster was available from McCanns website was able to be linked)? 3)Was there a *space for a page*  for a future CEOP Home Page AVAILABLE on April 30th? 4) Was there a *space for a page*  for a future CEOP Home Page  VIEWABLE on April 30th (ie what content would have been on that page until the October home page appeared) ------------------------------------ a) Have WBM resolved the issue and identify the reason why the above happened and can all of the above  be explained technically by WBM? b) Have WBM recognised there was a mistake but have not (yet?)  been able to identify. c) Is there NO technical explanation possible for the *space for a McCann page* to have existed on April 30th and therefore CEOP are in question? d) Did WBM recognise the mistake but are unable explain why the *space for a page* was available for a future McCann page to have landed on it. (Non Complicit) e) Did WBM recognise the mistake and ultimately identify that the CEOP McCann *space for a page* could only be explained if it did in fact exist but have  failed to acknowledge or  report to the appropriate authorites for reasons known only to themselves? (Complicit) My current personal thoughts on this are basically what we know... The pages and their content were a mistake to have been on April 30th as they linked to further dates in the future... WBM have acknowledged it is a mistake and attempts were made to explain it to me, so I have chosen to believe the facts as I see them... HOWEVER, I am not technically minded to understand the issue about the April 30th mccann *space for a page* existing three days before Madeleine disappeared after being assured by so many people that this could not have technically happened.  For that reason I recognise why many believe its possible that CEOP had 'reserved a page' on April 30th and this would mean there may be a major cover up. It is all down to a technical issue and until it can be explained that it is impossible for that *space for a McCann page* to have been available ONLY if CEOP had prior knowledge to the disappearance, I choose to stay with the known facts, that the page contents for April 30th (McCann and Home page) were linked to the future (July and October) and was therefore a mistake. The BIG question and one that I cannot personally make any judgements on, hence my reservations until I hear officially.. . IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A *SPACE FOR A McCANN PAGE* TO HAVE TECHNICALLY EXISTED THREE DAYS BEFORE MADELEINE'S DISAPPEARANCE?