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Title: Holiday Timeline and Discrepancies - Did something happen to Madeleine DURING the week? | |
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Date Posted:29/07/2014 11:21 PMCopy HTML ![]() ![]() NOTE: The following is based on 4 years of research, separating the statements into 15 minute time periods. There is a link available to EVERYTHING. Some of the over 200 TIMETABLES based on time periods and specific events during the week can be found here: TIMETABLES http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/All-Timetables-1-79313 Timelines can be viewed listed under specific headings on this page: Remembering Madeleine Forum http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann We all come to this investigation with different levels of knowledge and with different areas of interest... Some focus on the latest news...Some focus on connections...Some like to focus on hating the McCanns... My area of knowledge in the case is about what happened during that few days of the holiday... You will see me repeat several times about the years I spent researching the timelines and discrepancies...That isn't because of requiring accolades... I did it because it is my passion to form an opinion based on knowledge and when asked I cannot pull a theory out of thin air...I form my opinions based on the information I have studied in the case and I hope that gives me credibility for members that have not had the time or opportunity to research to any extent. I base all my videos (nearly 200) on the research and details from the files. That being said, I NEVER want anyone to believe something just because it is my, or anyone else's, opinion. You MUST draw your own conclusions based on what you have CONFIRMED to be true. Never blindly believe anything...that is what we try to do on HDH, is give you details and provide the links so you can confirm for YOURSELF. After discovering some 'explosive' information yesterday I decided it was time to give you an overall knowledge of the 'week' so you could see for yourself a little of what I 'see' so you can maybe understand what my theories are based on. This is all from memory so I will not be giving any links but will be more than happy to provide links to any of the following information. I will try to explain to you some of the things that happened during that week in chronological order as I recall from the research, so you can maybe understand why I believe something happened much earlier in the week. Everything is based on the files or 'facts' that we know. Please ask if you would like a link to any of the details. SATURDAY: A normal holiday arrival. They arrived mid afternoon...Went to the tapas at 5pm for information about the Ocean Club and details about its amenities. From what I understand, half day creche was included but the second half of the day was 'extra' They left there and went to the Millenium restaurant with all the childen. Ate their meal and went back to the apartment...ready for the start of their holiday. SUNDAY: We don't know too much about Sunday. The cleaners daughter saw them all outside the apartment at around 1.15pm... Madeleine holding bread and probably heading up to the Payne's apartment for lunch. (The last credible sighting of Madeleine during that week. imo) They also went to the pool around lunchtime... A lovely sunny day...temps around 23c (I believe that the 'last photo' was taken on this day) Matthew Oldfield was (apparently) sick and did not go to the tapas on Sunday night but oddly, Russell O'Brien claimed that he went to check on Matthew and Rachael's child... They dined at the tapas restaurant that night. Meals were included as was the wine. MONDAY: They all went to the Millenium for breakfast but the McCanns decided that it was difficult walking with the twins as they didnt have a buggy. Kate played tennis (every day?) at 9.15am - 10.15am Gerry played from 10.15 -11.15am Jane Tanner met up with friends of hers that were staying nearby (the Gorrods). Speculation is that the McCanns went to Sagres but this has never been confirmed. Creche records show that Madeleine was taken out of the creche after a few minutes and the twins shortly after but also not confirmed as the records are difficult to understand/believe. Something may have happened with the shutters on Sunday as the maintenance men were called in. (came on Tuesday) Curiously Matthew claims to have had a problem with his blinds also (they were in the apartment next door) but no record of having them fixed. No other details...it was a day when noone seemed to want to discuss. Kate claims in her diary that everyone was at the tapas. TUESDAY: This is the day that everything started to happen.... The McCanns decided to have breakfast in the apartment rather than walk to the Millenium because they didn't have a buggy for the twins..... and bought food from the Baptiste store nearby. According to tennis records and Georgina the tennis coach, this was the morning that Madeleine had MINI TENNIS. The mini tennis was discussed by Kate, Jane and Rachael and became very confusing as Rachael claims it was Thursday and Jane claims it was Wednesday. However. for the details of the mini tennis from them all one would expect the 'occasion' is remembered more than the date (I will address Rachael and mini tennis later regarding a separate issue of the day she claims it to have been) MINI TENNIS was between 10am and 11am (records show 10.30-11) Catriona (Madeleine's nanny) was present with the children so Georgina really did not have reason to know the children's names and she did not CONFIRM Madeleine was there...just mentioned it was Madeleine's group (Lobsters) that was playing. Kate claims to have run back to the apartment to get her camera to take a pic... Rachael claims it was Jane who took the tennis balls Pic and Russell claims it was not Jane. Neither Kate nor Jane mentions Rachael being there despite Rachael claiming Kate sitting with her for the time previous to the mini tennis (when Kate was actually playing tennis and going to see the Maintenance men who were in her apartment at some time showing her how to work the washing machine and fixing the shutters )(had something happened to Madeleine and shutters were involved before this time?) Lets keep in mind that if Rachael was lying about being at the tennis she may have thought it was Madeleine's mini tennis on Thursday when the other group played ((Sharks) One of them claimed that Gerry came over to join them while they were watching Madeleine.... Gerry was playing tennis until 15 mins after Madeleine had finished playing so he couldnt have been there.... At lunchtime Gerry walked with Jez Wilkins to the creche to pick up Madeleine at lunchtime. Gerry made a point of telling Jez that they left the children alone... Jez explained to him that the evening creche was available and that they provided blankets to bring the children home. After lunch they all walked to the beach with the twins in a buggy ( ?). It was a chilly day and the twins did not want to enter the water so they bought 5 ice creams (5? was this to confirm there were 5 of them at that point?) and they watched a guitarist at the restaurant...describing him in great detail. Returning to the place Madeleine in the creche at 2.50pm. Gerry bought sunglasses from one of the street vendors on the way back. (was this because the last picture had been taken on Sunday so by saying he didnt have sunglasses lent credibility to it having been taken after Tuesday?) Once Madeleine was back at the creche, she went on an 'ice cream trip' which, according to TravelAdvisor, was something that was agreed and paid for separately...(so why had they just been and had ice creams?) TUESDAY EVENING was when things started to become odd... They all went to the tapas except Russell who stayed in his apartment because his youngest daughter was sick. According to the quiz mistress who supervised the TRIVIA quiz from about 9pm (and then joined the table until approx 9.50pm) NO-ONE left the table and as she recalled, she did not see Kate during that time and does not remember seeing David Payne... There was one place setting that looked like someone had been there and left. (9pm is when they usually start the appetisers) So...was Russell, Kate and David Payne missing? At 10.16pm Kate starts to receieve a 'flurry' of calls (5) until 10.27pm (presumably at the apartment as they claim they didn't take their phones to the restaurant) Shortly after Mrs Fenn in the apartment above claims to have heard crying getting increasingly stronger with what sounded like 'Daddy, Daddy, Daddy' and it seemed to have come from a toddler for about an hour and quarter until 11.45pm. (Turn down volume before watching - May be disturbing to some) It is always presumed to be Madeleine but we know that Rachael claims to have bathed Jane Tanners older daughter in their apartment (while Jane was doing something else?) and their apartment was also directly next door to the McCanns and both were beneath Mrs Fenn. She heard patio doors close and the crying stopped. Was someone using the patio doors to enter...or to exit? She did not tell them about this as she didnt want to distress them further. I believe this was the night they claimed that Amelie was crying and Madeleine came into their room. There is a video clip of the hairdresser claiming that Mrs Fenn told them that the McCanns visited another bar, Chaplins that night but hearsay and may not be true. WEDNESDAY MORNING Very early around 7am Kate had 3 calls to her friend in England..Amanda (who is married to a pathologist) Shortly after at around 8am, Gerry starts receiving the first of 14 text messages... It was raining on Wednesday so the tennis was cancelled. Dianne Webster decided to go to breakfast at the Millenium... Jane stayed at the apartment. Dianne recalls seeing the McCanns at the Millenium despite them saying they didnt go for breakfast. At some point during Wednesday morning the cleaner were let into their apartment and the McCanns left via the balcony door. (see video) She made the beds and noticed a cot in the McCanns bedroom. Gerry and Kate BOTH deny the cot was there (why?) Around lunchtime Kate went for a jog (in her pink trainers) with Matthew and apparently was bitten by a dog causing blood on her leg. WEDNESDAY EVENING Jez Wilkins was at the tapas when Gerry arrived with Russell and was told that Kate was putting the children to bed...She did not seem to arrive while he was there... Where was Jane? With Kate? (Had something happened to Madeleine and Kate was grieving?) Did they EVER arrive? The group stayed at the tapas late that night. The waiters wanted to leave at midnight but the group stayed there until approx 1am. (Was there something important they needed to discuss?) According to Kate and Gerry the left just before 11pm...Gerry left first and when she was back at the apartment Gerry was in bed...He claims Kate spent a few moments in bed and because of his snoring went to sleep in Madeleine and twins room...however when one looks at the bed in their room it shows no signs she laid in it. Kate claims she was annoyed with him and didn't know if he knew she slept in the other room. THURSDAY MORNING... They awoke about 7am and Madeleine came to them and (according to May 4th statements) asked why they hadn't come when the TWINS were crying... However...In Gerrys May 10th statement he changed it to MADELEINE was crying and it remains that version to this day... What I find is curious is that Kate claims she would have not thought any more about the comment except once Madeleine was missing she recalled it and thought it was important... Oddly, she told Jane and Fiona on Thursday night BEFORE Madeleine disappeared! Not only that...If, as she claimed she told them on Thursday night then surely she would have told them the version she told the PJ on May 4th that it was the TWINS that were crying...so WHY did Jane and Fiona BOTH claim that she told them the version that MADELEINE was crying...this was the 'corrected' version 6 days later...so was it made AFTER they changed the version and if so WHY did they lie about being told on Thursday night? THE FOLLOWING FEW HOURS ARE VERY IMPORTANT....and keep in mind these details are taken from their EARLY statements the following day so there should be NO QUESTION about memory... Upon leaving the apartment Kate claims they ALL left through the front door... Gerry claims Kate and the kids left through the patio doors. He left Kate to go down the steep steps with three children so he could lock the doors of an EMPTY apartment? They tell us they dropped off the Twins at the tapas creche and Gerry took Madeleine to the Kids club creche at the reception while Kate played her tennis game at 9.15am (his followed at 11.15am) The following hours are very difficult to explain because of the contradictions and possible lies.... Rachel claims she sat with Kate by the pool awaiting Madeleine's mini tennis and when the children arrived (around 10.30am) claims Jane was there and took the photo of Madeleine with the tennis balls. She ALSO claims that THIS WAS THE LAST TIME SHE SAW MADELEINE (was she trying to be helpful? Had something happened to Madeleine earlier and she saw little blonde girls, Madeleine's age playing tennis and thought that Madeleine should be there?) The police were persistent in trying to establish with her WHICH courts the children were playing on. The court she identified was the INCORRECT one according to the tennis records. Jane and Russell claim to have both been at the mini tennis of the group that
was NOT Madeleine's but was called the Sharks and was the same age group
(Sharks)
They both recall speaking to Nigel...he had a camera and they discussed about how difficult it was to take pictures of children and how it could be misinterpreted. During that half hour (10.30 - 11am) Jane left and went to the beach where she met Fiona and Dvid on the way back from windsurfing...both cold and heading back to the apartment to change. Jane arrived at the beach in time to catch her older daughter (3 months younger than Madeleine and in the same group as Madeleine) getting ready to go back to the creche after their 'mini sail' She took pictures of her daughter but no mention of Madeleine (pics not available in the files) Jane's statement tells us that Russell went to the beach with
her.
Although Rachael tells us she was at mini tennis on Thursday, there is no mention of her by Russell or Jane. Bridget O'Donnell tells us in an interview with the Guardian that she saw
the children (all pink and pretty) but does not specifically mention
Madeleine.
She also tells us that Gerry and Kate spent time talking with the Tennis coach. Fiona claims to have been with her by the pool and they both went to pick
up Fiona's youngest daughter (in the same room as Madeleine) and
Madeleine.
Kate signed Madeleine out at 12.25.
Kate says in her statement that she went back to the apartment first
and prepared lunch for the children.
Gerry says that it was HIM that went to pick up Madeleine and he remembers
that because he took the short cut.
Kate says she went back to the tapas creche to see if Gerry had picked up
the twins... Neither of them appear to know and Catriona the nanny does not
recall WHO picked up and dropped off Madeleine on Thursday. This is very interesting as the police timeline diagrams claim
that although Kate and Gerry claim the twins were in the creche....there are NO
creche records for them....
Maybe they were not released as I have always believed....but the diagrams
tell us something different.... Thursday morning diagrams do not show the twins were at the creche.... Jane mentions (in the diagrams) that they were picked up from the creche and Fiona claims they were with her ALL AFTERNOON! If that is the case then HOW was the last picture taken? Further confirmation that it was suspicious about whether Madeleine was there for the last picture at 2.29 on May 5th comes from Rachael.... She had said in her statement that both Jane and her played tennis that lunchtime...Supported by Jane Tanners statement... Jane claims that Madeleine was shouting at them through the fence...Rachael
does not mention this...and fort a good reason...
Rachael claims that the LAST TIME she saw Madeleine was during mini tennis... Was that mini tennis on Thursday (when she was mistaken and Madeleine
didn't play) or was it on TUESDAY when Madeleines group played (In which case
the last time she saw Madeleine was Tuesday?)
Either way... Rachael (by default) did NOT see Madeleine by the pool when
they were playing tennis as she says the LAST time she saw Madeleine was when
she was playing tennis (whether Tuesday morning or Thursday morning)
If that was the case...is it true that Jane and Rachael were playing tennis
and Madeleine wasn't there for the last picture?
Is Rachael lying about the last time she saw Madeleine? Jane claims to have seen Madeleine and Rachael didnt...are they BOTH lying
about being there?
If they are both lying about playing tennis at the time the Last Picture
was supposed to be taken.....is it pssible they were 'being helpful' but both
had got the story wrong?
How could Jane see Madeleine but Rachael didnt?
Were they both there? (If they were lying...WHY?) Were the McCanns there? Most importantly ...was Madeleine there?
The McCanns claim they took the twins back to the creche at 2.40 (approx)
and drpped Madeleine off at her creche at 2.50pm...
So...WHY did Fiona claim..(according to the diagrams) that SHE had the
twins that afternoon?
WERE the twins at the creche or is it a story made up to support the
'Last Picture' (which I believe was taken on Sunday with just the exif data
changed)? THURSDAY AFTERNOON
During the afternoon Gerry and Kate were able to book a tennis court where
they played before Gerry continued playing with one of the other
guests.
Kate went for a jog and passed the T7 who were down on the beach at the Paraiso. Clips from the footage is available to view, showing the timeline of their duration in the Paraiso restaurant. The owner/manager claims Miguel Mattias, claims to have seen Madeleine dancing with her daddy at the restaurant and passed the footage to the PJ. The footage confirms that Madeleine was not there and that he appears to have mistaken one of the other T7 children as being Madeleine (confirming the possibility of other witnesses being mistaken) and looked similar to Madeleine. HIGH TEA
Gerry claims to have been at high tea while the children were there and Kate arrived after her jog at approx 5.30pm Catriona the nanny claims that Gerry WASN'T there and that he was playing tennis....which is very odd as who would have told her that? WHEN? Catriona was 'invited' to the McCanns home during November prior to the Rogatory statements and may have learned details and became confused. Oddly, she also remembers details such as Kate wearing a jogging outfit. Kate consistently claims that Madeleine was very tired an Madeleine asked her mother to carry her home. The children were signed out at 5.30pm.
Kate then carried her back to the apartment but Gerry claims they went to the patio doors and he let them in through the back. If, indeed, Kate had een carrying Madeleine, How did she manage the twins on her own, climbing the steep steps at the rear of the apartment. This was a few hours before Madeleine disappeared and yet Kate claims she
went in through the front doors.
What mother would not remember the door used 3 hrs before she claims she saw her daughter for the LAST TIME! Was it GERRY that got it wrong? Did they REALLY go back to the apartment at that time? They can't agree on what door was used even the following morning when they gave their statements? THURSDAY EVENING
There are too many inconsistencies about the following few hours... Russell claims that Kate and the children were there during the mens tennis... Kate claims she went back to the apartment and took a shower AND a
bath?
She claims she was in a towel when David Payne stopped by to pass a message
on to her from Gerry ( about 6.30pm) asking if she needed help to take the
children to the recreation area...
Kate claims he was there for about 30 seconds... David Payne described the children at length....obviously from the detail he spent more than 30 seconds in the apartment. Mrs Fenn (according to an interview with Goncalo Amaral) saw David Payne on the balcony about 7pm Gerry had gone to tennis at 6.00pm...the others had arrived a while later from the Paraiso restaurant. David Payne was back at his apartment at 7.10pm. The police asked Fiona...they finally had her agree that she had no idea where David Payne was between 6 and 7pm. Fiona went out jogging while the children were bathed and just before it was time to go to the tapas, which made them a little late. AT THE TAPAS Gerry and Kate and Rachael and Matthew Oldfield arrived first Jane
(separate to Russell) arrived a little later.
At 9.00pm Matthew decided to 'chivvy' the Paynes as they hadn't arrived. He walked up to the apartment and met them on the way down...but STRANGE... Matthew claimed he saw them at the corner of the road by the frnt of the apartments.... Fiona claimed she saw him near the gate at the BACK of the apartment.... David claims he saw him near the swimming pool... Dianne claimed that she CATEGORICALLY did not see him at all on her way to
the tapas....at least until her Rogatories when she said she may have seen him as
Fiona and David had REMINDED her... (Reminded?)
DINNER
During the dinner, the waiters claim that ONLY the men ever got up from the
table and noone really knew WHY they left the table (until after the
'disappearance' when they PRESUMED they left the table to check the
children. To be continued.... |
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HiDeHo
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Re:Holiday Timeline and Discrepancies - Did something happen to Madeleine DURING the week? Date Posted:01/08/2014 3:08 AMCopy HTML TIMETABLE FOR DINNER TIME 8.00pm -10.00pm http://madeleinemccann.aimoo.com/Hour-By-Hour-Tables/Thursday-May-3rd-9-00pm-0-00pm-1-755742.html Statements can be distinguished by colour - (See applicable portions of statements below timetable)
Fiona Erm, on the way down, we went down the normal way, as I say, out onto the main road and round the corner. And just as we were approaching, erm, probably outside kind of the, Kate and Gerry’s gate, that sort of area, erm, we bumped into Matt who was heading back to chase us up, erm, and we had a joke, you know, we’re always late. He carried on up to check on G***e and we carried on down to the Tapas Bar and when we got there everyone else, bar Matt, was sat at the table. Erm, again, (inaudible) to get on and order. Erm, you know, there’s nothing else really”. DW: "Well we arrived about, I don’t know, ten to nine, five to nine, which was very late. Err and the thing that I didn’t mention at the original err interview in Portugal was that I do vaguely remember seeing Matt, he was coming up because I think he made some joke about coming up to see where we were because we were so late, but he was actually on his way to check err check the children.” PC: "Right.” DW: "Err so I do, I do remember that although I didn’t remember it clearly at the time err so we got down to the table err I think we ordered our starters.” PC: "Do you remember who was there when you got there?” DW: "Well Matt obviously wasn’t because we we’d just passed him but of course I don’t remember this at the time, and I think in my original statement I thought maybe Gerry wasn’t there, but maybe he was, you know, I don’t know.” PC: "You can’t be sure?” DW: "I can’t be sure because it’s not something that I think I need to remember, you know at the time, its not something you need to remember.” PC: "No, and it was no different from any of the other nights.” DW: "That’s right.” PC: "People are coming and going.” DW: "Yeah it was err we didn’t all sit in the same positions every night, you know, we (inaudible).” PC: "Can you remember where you sat on that particular night?” DW: "Err yes I sat sort of with my back almost towards the, err kitchen bit and err Russell was on my right, Matt was on my left and I think it was then Dave and Gerry, Fiona, Kate, Jane and Rachael.” PC: "So if you were to look straight ahead from where you were sitting, where would you be facing?” DW: "I’d be, I would be facing to the, err, the apartments would be over there, and I’d be looking towards the exit I suppose.” PC: "Okay. I have got a plan here. It’s not in relation to the Tapas I’m afraid, but if you’d like to draw a diagram if it would help you then you’re very welcome to. This is just a, it’s a, it’s being referred to as DM2, that’s just an exhibit reference.” DW: "Yeah.” ----- PC: "Err, so you’re not sure whether Gerry or not was there when you arrived, and you say you would have ordered your starters.” DW: "Ordered the starters and err we had our, we had our starters and err we’d ordered our, our main course. Now I can’t remember, I know that err Jane err during that time, you see there, I can’t remember it was Jane or Russell when they went back to check on their children, E**e had been err sick, so I think err I think it might, might have been Russell that found her sick and he came back and I think Jane went back then and that might have been, yeah that must have been at the time when err no, I don’t know. I know they had to sort of err relieve each other because E**e had been sick.” --------------- DW: "Yeah well at that, that was the point you see, at that time I don’t, I didn’t remember having passed Matt on the way but you know as time’s gone on and, and err I think Dave, Dave or Fiona mentioned it and that’s, I did then remember. As I say things like that at the time are irrelevant to me, they’re not...” PC: "Yeah, well in any case he never arrived at your apartment to come and call for you did he?” DW: "No, no, no we passed him on the way down.” PC: "Then it says that the whole group had met up in the restaurant, you don’t remember but you think it possible that perhaps Matt and Gerald were not together with the other members of the group in the restaurant. You said earlier on when we spoke that you couldn’t picture Gerry being there.” DW: "Mm.” PC: "It may have been a point where he’d gone off to check.” DW: "Yeah.” PC: "Err…” DW: "Which would really tie in the time if you’re allowing half hour intervals, I mean Kate and Gerry were the first to arrive there so…” -- PC: "And you arrived with Fiona and David.” DW: "Fiona and Dave yeah.” PC: "And you’ve already said that you think everybody else was present other than Matt who you’d just seen.” DW: "Mm.” PC: "Going to check his children, and you can’t picture whether Gerry was there or not.” DW: "Mm.” ----- PC: "And did you leave the table at all during that dinner on the third of May?” DW: "Err only to go to the toilet I think, probably.” PC: "And then it says, where did you go and what time did you go? Well that’s not really relevant. (Laughs).” DW: "(Laughs).” PC: "How long were you away from the table and why?” DW: "That’s a very personal question (laughs).” ------ PC: "Again, what time did you arrive at the Tapas restaurant? Well you’ve already covered that. And who was already there? You’ve already covered that. What were Kate and Gerry doing by the time you arrived?”
DW: "Well my recollection is that, that err I thought, I thought Gerry wasn’t at the table but I can’t be a hundred percent sure. Err but I would have said that, you know, they were just sitting at the table waiting for everybody to arrive so we could order our, start ordering our food.” PC: "And did you speak to them?” DW: "I would think so, I spoke to everybody but, you know, I don’t…” PC: "You can’t recall the specifics?” DW: "No.” PC: "What was their behaviour like?” DW: "Just normal, you know, having a good holiday.” PC: "And again we’ve already covered this, who left the table during the meal and why? Well you say there was Matthew, Russell and Jane comings and goings, and you don’t recall Gerry being there sometimes, so.” DW: "Well I know that, I know that err every night, I mean the children were being checked on very regularly but I obviously wasn’t paying attention as to who was going where, when, and I wasn’t even particularly aware that sometimes they would check on each other’s children, i.e. if they were going to check their own they would listen to other people, the doors of other people, but I, I was totally unaware of that.” PC: "I think…” DW: "There’s no reason why I would know that.” PC: "Yeah. I think from what I’ve learnt this week it’s actually the Thursday night was the first night that had actually…” DW: "That that had happened.” PC: "Yeah. I’m not wishing to labour this point but did you see Gerry leaving the table during the meal? At what time? How long was he absent? You can’t really (inaudible)…” DW: "I can’t.” PC: "No.” DW: "You know, it’s…” PC: "Can you say was he behaving or acting differently when he returned?” DW: "No.” Dianne Webster May 11th Asked directly if someone had gone to her apartment to call them (herself and the PAYNE couple) for dinner the witness said no. Asked if there was the possibility of having crossed paths with someone during the journey between her apartment and restaurant, the witness said no. That night she believes she arrived at the restaurant at around 21:00 in the company of the PAYNE couple. That, at that time, the whole group were at the restaurant. The witness did not recall, but thinks that perhaps Gerald and MATT had not been in the restaurant along with the other members of the group. In this regard, asked specifically whether, on the journey to the restaurant, if they had passed either of the two individuals described in the preceding paragraph, she answered categorically not. Questioned about the members who, during the dinner, had absented themselves from the restaurant, the witness says that, as she recalls, there were some people who left, failing to identify which, except for RUSSEL who had left the restaurant and taken a little more time than usual due to, from what she knows, his daughter had been sick. Asked, she states that it would be normal for one member of each of the couples to get up regularly in order to check in their apartments if the children were well. She clarifies that the practice was for each couple to check their own children, it not being usual for anyone to check the children of other couples. STEPHEN CARPENTER DCF: We arrived at about seven because we had the children with us and I saw a man sitting at the table next to us with three children. SC: Yes . DCF: He was going to take a plane the next day to Switzerland, given that the children’s mother lived there, I had never seen him before that night, but he ended up joining us for a coffee, he was a MW tourist. Another couple whose names I do not remember, sat at the table opposite us. A man was sitting on the esplanade having a drink whilst waiting for a take away, I spoke to them briefly, I hadn’t realised that the Tapas bar had a take away service. At that time i didn’t know their names. At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them, we spoke of tennis amongst other things, I vaguely remember that Gerry and Kate and other people from the group would leave the table in intervals (inaudible), I think it was to check on the children , but I do not remember with what frequency or how many times the people left the table to check on the children. We did not talk about the system for checking the children or the fact that they had left them alone in the apartment, it was only later upon hearing the news that I realised that they had left the children alone in the apartment and that they were regularly checking to see if they were all right. Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry’s apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars, it was normal for cars to be parked there and in the morning they were no longer there. My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling “Madeleine, Madeleine”, this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine’s disappearance”. OK, before going on the next part, do you remember at what time you left' SC: Humm... vaguely, I think it was what was put in the statement, the same, the leaving the restaurant, the way back to the apartment, looking to my left to check that the way was clear and I didn’t see anything....My wife vaguely remembers hearing “Madeleine, Madeleine” and that was all until the following morning when I saw the television. DCF: At what time did you arrive at the Tapas restaurant on 3rd May (inaudible)' SC: At seven, I think at seven, yes. DCF: Yes and you say that Kate and Gerald arrived at about half past eight, what was the theme of the conversation' SC: I think it was just holiday chat, I think that we talked about our tennis and the good and bad aspects. DCF: And who else was at the restaurant, well.... you have already referred to this in your statement. SC: Yes. DCF: Did you see Kate or Gerry leave the table before you' SC: (Inaudible). DCF: I think that this means the coming and going of people during the evening. SC: Yes, I remember that people would absent themselves intermittently at different times, but I did not know why. DCF: no. SC: But as we discovered later, it was to check on the children. DCF: And I imagine that your attention was directed towards your family and (inaudible). SC: Yes, because we obviously had our two with us and we were on this side of the table, the single man with three small children was here and I****was playing with them, so we were more or less a group if you would like to call it that, of which they were a part, I think that all the ten members were there and some of us would speak to others here and on the other side of the table. DCF: At what time did you leave the Tapas bar' SC: I think it was at about half past nine. DCF: I think that is what you said. SC: Yes. DCF: And you were accompanied, you replied that you were with your children and your wife. Where did you go afterwards, it says here...before going back to your apartment, can you describe the route you took' SC: Directly to the apartment. DCF: Did you see anyone outside the Tapas Bar or outside the apartments' SC: If I saw anyone outside the Tapas bar or, hummm.. on the way home presumably' DCF: Yes, is there anyone you remember that night, did you see anyone in the area' SC: No. |
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Re:Holiday Timeline and Discrepancies - Did something happen to Madeleine DURING the week? Date Posted:01/08/2014 3:11 AMCopy HTML TIMETABLE FOR AFTER 10PM http://madeleinemccann.aimoo.com/Thursday-May-3rd-10-00pm-4-00am/Timetable-AFTER-Disappearance-With-phone-info-1-803669.html Information about the phone calls courtesy of santacoloma Debate and Theories based on the Phone Records II http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic5814.html
Emma Knights (client support director) searched the beach area and asked Kate what Madeleine had been wearing. Shortly afterwards Emma returned to the McCann's apartment and stayed with Kate. Gerald was seen and spoken to by Neil Berry and Raj Malu. They heard him calling for Madeleine when they were sitting on Neil's balcony, not far from the McCann's apartment. They both went down to talk to Gerald and helped in the search. Both David Payne and Matthew Oldfield were seen by Emma Knights when she was on her way to the beach, the search area to which she was assigned by Lyndsey Johnson (child care director and search coordinator). I’ll just say that. I think then we decided that we just needed to look a little bit further afield, erm, and I went round the, the front of the apartments, the high side of the apartments, had a look along there, erm, got to the, what I’m calling the main road that drops in from, erm, from the, from the motor, from the dual carriageway outside of town, and then looked, you know, down, you know, looked down the hill there, erm, towards the, the, erm, the western side of the tennis courts, erm, really looking, you know, either side of the road just to see if she was sort of wandering there, erm, and you could hear kind of ‘Madeleine’ being shouted pretty much everywhere around at this point. Erm, that, the next, after I kind of moved down a bit to the left, there was the Supermarket quite some distance away, but there’s a, there’s a, there’s a road and I think it had a car park or a, well certainly a car park but there was an area of sort of rough that you could probably, you know, it’s not tarmaced or anything, had a look around there, couldn’t see her. And then there’s, erm, there was an entrance into, erm, the building kind of opposite this, which is, is, which is like a Shopping Centre, erm, or at least the lower floors seemed to have a kind of a set of like a Curry House and a Bar and a few things and a swimming pool as well, and, huh, I can’t remember the layout in there very much, but I remember it being kind of split on, on at least sort of two levels, lots of little recesses around kind of, I think kind of shop windows and stuff. So I didn’t really know where I was going, I’d never been in it before, but, nonetheless, sort of wandered around the lower floor and didn’t find anything. I went up on, on, I think on the next floor up, as I came off the stairs and came round there was a, a small Coffee Bar or a Bar on the left and looked in there and asked, there was a, there was a, a man and a, erm, erm, presumably a barman in there, just, there was only a couple of people, and said, you know, ‘Have you seen a little girl’ and, I mean, I don’t know how much English they spoke, but they seemed to, they just sort of shrugged and said no. So then just around that area. And then, and then found my way out of the, the Shopping Centre and actually came out at the other end from where, well a different entrance, I didn’t come out the same way I don’t think, erm, and, erm, it was actually on the road that comes down in front of the Baptista Supermarket. I don’t know whether I searched a little bit more around there, but not long thereafter I met Dave coming down the road in front of the Supermarket, erm, just looking terrible, just pale, erm, you know, sort of, you know, sort of fear in his eyes, saying, you know, ‘This is’, erm, ‘This is really bad. This is bad’, you know, ‘No-one’s found her. No-one’s found her’. Erm, and I don’t know what happened at this point particularly, erm, whether we went around there, but at some point or other me, Matt and Dave found ourselves either back at the flat or, or, or, together somewhere nearby and decided that we would, erm, head down to the beach, Sylvie, who was the translator, I’m not sure when she arrived whether it was before the Police arrived or after the Police arrived or whenever, then when the PJ actually arrived they came and got me to go and talk to the, the PJ”. I can’t remember what time of night that is, but that might have been before the Police came as well or just after the Police, but they’re the only other real people I can remember talking to”.(nannies) ’And a female member of staff possibly from MARK WARNER’?” Reply “Yeah, she was certainly, yeah, she was, she was English, you know, clearly not a, not a local. Erm, next it says ‘We tried to find a picture of Madeleine’, I mean, it wasn’t so much struggling to get the picture, it was struggling to find the means of printing it. We had the cam, we had Kate’s camera, erm, the, what we were trying to do is find a picture that actually gave a good likeness, rather than just being any old shot it actually had, you know, a close-up of her, of her face. There were a lot of pictures on the camera but they were, you know, just at home and on, you know, in profile and things like that”. We were searching for a printer and Kat, one of the Nannies, said she had a printer’. I’m pretty sure it was Kat. So the pictures of Madeleine?” Reply “On a digital camera”. 1578 “That were printed off?” Reply “Yeah”. 1578 “Came from Kate’s camera”. Reply “From Kate’s camera as far as I can remember, yeah. And the main issue was trying to find somewhere to print it”. 1578 “What about if we say ‘Kate checked her camera and found some pictures’?” Reply “Yeah, yeah, or ‘Kate’s camera was checked’, I don’t think Kate was in no, in no state whatsoever to check her camera”. 1578 “Okay. So ‘We tried to find a picture of Madeleine’?” Reply “Yeah”. 1578 “’Kate’s camera was checked’?” Reply “Umm, ‘And Kat or one of the other Nannies went to their flat to retrieve a printer or something that would connect to a printer andthen the pictures were printed in the office off the small reception portal’, there’s a little office in there”. Kat was there and Leanne was there, but whether it was actually their printer or lead, I’m not sure. The rest of that paragraph, erm, is fine. Erm,I think Gerry, it was actually Rachael, where it says ‘I’m not sure who informed the Authorities or media about Madeleine’s disappearance’, it says ‘It may have been Gerry’, erm, oh I beg your pardon, it’s the Authorities there, it says ‘Authorities or media’. I think, erm, Gerry and Matt, erm, were the people who, who actually tried to get the Ocean Club to phone the Police but it wasn’t the media, so maybe delete, if you delete ‘or media’, because the person on the media, I think that was, I think that was Rachael”. I loathe the media’ comma, just to make it, just to read. Erm, ‘A very low opinion of them’, full-stop. ‘David also’, ‘David was also keen to make use of the media and I think he may have conducted’, conducted, ‘may have sent an email but I’m not sure’, I think he was looking to do it but I don’t think, erm, I don’t think that actually happened”. |
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Re:Holiday Timeline and Discrepancies - Did something happen to Madeleine DURING the week? Date Posted:01/08/2014 4:20 AMCopy HTML POLICE RESPONSE ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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Re:Holiday Timeline and Discrepancies - Did something happen to Madeleine DURING the week? Date Posted:31/10/2014 12:44 AMCopy HTML Many people ask me how I arrived at my 'theory' about what happened.
Initially I knew nothing...and was asked by a non related forum what my thoughts were... At that point i couldn't answer because I didn't have the knowledge to make an informed opinion, so I joined some of the forums discussing the case. The rest is history... Like most others, I was intrigued with the discrepancies and started checking some of the timelines etc. At that point the files had not been released, but SOL newspaper gave us an idea of what may have happened (later confirmed by the files) I opened a forum to file everything as I found myself repeating myself so often, so for times sake it was easier to have the details filed and easily accesible to add to posts. In August of 2008 the files were released. There was a major effort to have then translated, and one of the first set of translations was that of the Ocean Club staff.. I was confused with names and nicknames so decided to do a 'Staff Rota' so I could make it easy to see who was working that night... I took the relevant parts of the statements and started highlighting them for the portions that were applicable....and that when I started to see discrepancies...or oddities that made me curious. I then took the groups statements and separated all the comments into a timetable so I could compare what each member said regarding a particular time (15 min intervals). Thats when I saw MANY DISCREPANCIES. (not memory related) It also gave me an 'overview' of the activities of that week. With so many discrepancies happening on Thursday i felt that something had happened on Wednesday and the Thursday was 'covering up the truth' day. By this time I had seen all the other files and statements and could not find anything to dispute something happening on Wednesday. Further down the road I was discussing with someone about when Madeleine was last seen and realised that I couldn't find a CREDIBLE PROOFstatement (mistaken or questionable credibility) th |
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Re:Holiday Timeline and Discrepancies - Did something happen to Madeleine DURING the week? Date Posted:31/10/2014 4:11 PMCopy HTML Further down the road I was discussing with someone about when Madeleine was last seen.
I started to look at the statements of those claiming to have seen her. The Tapas Cook said she saw her every day going into the creche. Madeleine did not attend that creche. She went to the creche above reception about 10 mins away so she may have been mistaken. I then decided to do a thorough compilation of all the people that claimed to have seen Madeleine throughout the holiday. At that point I saw that the tennis coach mentioned the mini tennis on Tuesday morning. I then decided nothing could have happened to her prior to |Tuesday |UNtiL I scrutinised the statement and saw that she did not specifically say she saw her...Just a reference to Madeleine's group playing mini tennis. None of the statements were PROOF she was not there but none of them were proof that she WAS there. This took me back to Sunday with the cleaner's daughter's statement that said she saw Madeleine and her family at lunchtime coming out of their apartment and Madeleine was carrying bread and possibly going up to the Payne's apartment (which we know from statements likely happened). This was the ONLY credible statement in my opinion that confirmed Madeleine was seen Sunday lunchtime. I have seen no others that were specific or confirmed credible after that. I looked at the discrepancies of Tuesday....and saw how something was not right. Everything started to fall into place. IF something had happened to Madeleine AFTER Sunday lunchtime and BEFORE the discrepancies and curiosities started to happen on Tuesday then many of them could be explained if Kate was in grief and the 'plan' for the abduction was in place. I do not believe that Dianne Webster knew anything and it was therefore important to not be around as a group during the day in case questions were asked. They no longer went to breakfast and did not go to the Paynes apartment for lunch. Tuesday morning Gerry told Jez Wilkins that they left the children alone....opening up the knowledge that there was going to be an opportunity for an abduction. |
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Re:Holiday Timeline and Discrepancies - Did something happen to Madeleine DURING the week? Date Posted:31/10/2014 4:30 PMCopy HTML This was the day they 'supposedly' went for a walk to the beach and the 5 ice creams and a thorough description of a guitarist.
This was the chosen day to claim they bought Gerry's sunglasses. Did they do that because they knew at this point they were going to use a picture taken on Sunday for the Last Picture that would be claimed to have been taken Thursday, but wanted to deflect from it being Sunday by claiming he didnt have the sunglasses until Tuesday? They returned to the creche at 2.50pm approx where the activity for that afternoon was an ice cream trip to the beach! Tuesday evening was when the quiz mistress started the quiz at 9.00pm and was invited to their table for 20 mins. She claims that noone got up from the table and that there was a place setting that may have indicated someone left. She did not recall seeing Kate (at the apartment grieving?) or possibly David Payne.Russell O Brien claims to have been at his apartment looking after his youngest daughter who was sick. Only Fiona, Gerry, Dianne, Rachael and Matt were at the tapas and yet the waiters always claimed they were all there. Could this be why the police asked everyone if the irwin sisters were at their table? Did they make up the numbers? After the quiz is when Mrs. Fenn heard the crying for 75 minutes. |
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Re:Holiday Timeline and Discrepancies - Did something happen to Madeleine DURING the week? Date Posted:01/11/2014 2:37 AMCopy HTML It is suggested she received the calls at the apartment.
The following morning she made very early calls to her friend Amanda at approx 7am and this was when the well known 14 text messages started to arrive to Gerry's phone (denied by both Kate and Gerry) The cleaner claims to have seen a cot in the parents bedroom but they denied it. At this point I felt there really was something that had happened and they needed to hide it Wednesday had some discrepancies.... Wednesday evening, instead of the couples going to the tapas individually, Gerry and Russell O'Brien went together. No indication if Jane went to the tapas but when Jez askd gerry about Kate he was told that she was putting the children to bed...Did she EVER go to the tapas that night? Did Jane stay with Kate? Thursday discrepancies were too many to mention here... Thefirst one is that we are told that Madeleine went to her parents and asked why they didnt come when she was crying.....In their statements on May 4th they BOTH claimed it was the twins that Madeleine had told them were crying...but by their next statement it had changed to Madeleine. One would think that if they had told the police on may 4th that it was the TWINS that were crying, that the night before, if Kate had mentioned to Fiona and Jane about the crying they would have told them the same as they told the police the following day...BUT THEY DIDN'T! Both Jane and Fiona claim they told then that it was Madeleine that had been crying.... This is what they CHANGED their statements to say later...so was it LATER that they told Jane and Fiona? Many...Many...Many discrepancies happened on Thursday and one has to wonder why? Were they covering up something that happened earlier? I believe so, and have NEVER found anything in the last 7 years to prove my research incorrect. Something happened to Madeleine earlier in the week and there is every indication that the last few days of their 'holiday' were spent 'preparing' for the faked abduction. If my research can be disputed i will willingly change my opinion. |
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Re:Holiday Timeline and Discrepancies - Did something happen to Madeleine DURING the week? Date Posted:07/03/2018 5:52 AMCopy HTML bump
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